Comments for Religion-N-Spirituality http://religion-n-spirituality.com The Great Faiths Explored & Explained Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:13:04 +0000 hourly 1 Comment on I want to join the Order of the Golden Dawn,which on is the right one? by botakkia http://religion-n-spirituality.com/mysticism/i-want-to-join-the-order-of-the-golden-dawnwhich-on-is-the-right-one-6459/comment-page-1#comment-39760 botakkia Thu, 11 Mar 2010 05:13:04 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/mysticism/i-want-to-join-the-order-of-the-golden-dawnwhich-on-is-the-right-one-6459#comment-39760 Bad Seed lyrics Come clean, fix up Tell all, spill guts Off the veil, stand revealed Show the card, bring it on Break the seal Ladies and gentlemen Step right up and see the man who taught the truth Swing the noose again Pierce the apple skin You bit more than you need Now you're choking on the bad seed On the bad seed Ah, choking Yeah, let it on Load up, confess Care so At the mercy, cat is out Drop through the sky Spit it up, spit it out And now what you've all been waiting for I give you he who suffers the truth Swing the noose again Pierce the apple skin Yeah, you bit more than you need Now you're choking on the bad seed Choking on the bad seed, yeah Off the veil, stand revealed Bring it on, break the seal At the mercy, cat is out Spit it up, spit it out Spit it up, spit it out Spit it out now At the mercy Swing the noose again Pierce the apple skin You bit more than you need Choking on the seed Swing the noose again Pierce the apple skin Yeah, you bit more than you need Now you're choking on the Choking, choking, choking on the bad seed Off the veil, stand revealed Bring it on, break the seal At the mercy, cat is out Spit it up, spit it out Spit it out, spit it out Spit it out now, yeah Choking on the bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad seed Bad Seed lyrics

Come clean, fix up
Tell all, spill guts
Off the veil, stand revealed
Show the card, bring it on
Break the seal

Ladies and gentlemen
Step right up and see the man who taught the truth

Swing the noose again
Pierce the apple skin
You bit more than you need
Now you’re choking on the bad seed
On the bad seed
Ah, choking

Yeah, let it on
Load up, confess
Care so

At the mercy, cat is out
Drop through the sky
Spit it up, spit it out

And now what you’ve all been waiting for
I give you he who suffers the truth

Swing the noose again
Pierce the apple skin
Yeah, you bit more than you need
Now you’re choking on the bad seed
Choking on the bad seed, yeah

Off the veil, stand revealed
Bring it on, break the seal
At the mercy, cat is out
Spit it up, spit it out
Spit it up, spit it out
Spit it out now

At the mercy

Swing the noose again
Pierce the apple skin
You bit more than you need
Choking on the seed

Swing the noose again
Pierce the apple skin
Yeah, you bit more than you need
Now you’re choking on the
Choking, choking, choking on the bad seed

Off the veil, stand revealed
Bring it on, break the seal
At the mercy, cat is out
Spit it up, spit it out
Spit it out, spit it out
Spit it out now, yeah

Choking on the bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad seed

]]> Comment on I want to join the Order of the Golden Dawn,which on is the right one? by Yada Yada http://religion-n-spirituality.com/mysticism/i-want-to-join-the-order-of-the-golden-dawnwhich-on-is-the-right-one-6459/comment-page-1#comment-39759 Yada Yada Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:59:19 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/mysticism/i-want-to-join-the-order-of-the-golden-dawnwhich-on-is-the-right-one-6459#comment-39759 According to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn all of the original ones went out of existence by the 1970s, but there are three groups who revived the teachings. They are listed towards the bottom. According to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn
all of the original ones went out of existence by the 1970s, but there are three groups who revived the teachings. They are listed towards the bottom.

]]> Comment on Question concerning the Moravian church? by Dave P http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/moravian-church/question-concerning-the-moravian-church-6457/comment-page-1#comment-39758 Dave P Thu, 11 Mar 2010 03:10:06 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/moravian-church/question-concerning-the-moravian-church-6457#comment-39758 Not that I've ever heard of (at least at the organizational level). They are pretty mainstream protestant. Not in any way a nut case cult movement. Of course, that doesn't mean that there isn't an individual church with a weird pastor who advocates what you describe. Not that I’ve ever heard of (at least at the organizational level). They are pretty mainstream protestant. Not in any way a nut case cult movement.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t an individual church with a weird pastor who advocates what you describe.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by runge123 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39757 runge123 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:39:44 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39757 I am sure most every Lutheran Church is different....from state to state, and country to country.....there are many different variations in the United States.....LCMS, ELCA, WELCS, ELS, just to name a few....it does not mean what one practices is any more right than the other....or the traditions that are observed are any more right than the other....I am just saying that I was surprised to see how many "Catholic" traditions are practiced at Grace Lutheran in Tulsa, OK, a LCMS congregation. I am sure most every Lutheran Church is different….from state to state, and country to country…..there are many different variations in the United States…..LCMS, ELCA, WELCS, ELS, just to name a few….it does not mean what one practices is any more right than the other….or the traditions that are observed are any more right than the other….I am just saying that I was surprised to see how many “Catholic” traditions are practiced at Grace Lutheran in Tulsa, OK, a LCMS congregation.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by karpov89 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39756 karpov89 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 23:34:50 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39756 Well but in America I think about all Lutheran churches do not have ordained bishops, priests (not pastors) and deacons; there is only the priesthood of all believers. Am I not correct?! But the liturgy maybe be high church. Well but in America I think about all Lutheran churches do not have ordained bishops, priests (not pastors) and deacons; there is only the priesthood of all believers. Am I not correct?! But the liturgy maybe be high church.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by runge123 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39755 runge123 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:58:36 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39755 I do not understand what you are stating or asking. I do not understand what you are stating or asking.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by Norskyone http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39754 Norskyone Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:40:35 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39754 What? What?

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by Norskyone http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39753 Norskyone Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:35:36 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39753 That is not dogmatic. Lutherans commonly use both the crucifix and the cross (sans cristus= empty.) The "empty" cross is not a symbol of the resurrected Christ. The empty tomb is. Most Lutheran Churches in the world use the cross with the crucified Christ on it. Poor, rural churches in the upper American midwest usually used a simpe cross for reasons of ease and cost. It had nothing to do with what is more "Lutheran." Poor Catholic parishes also used a couple of crossed planks of wood. That is not dogmatic. Lutherans commonly use both the crucifix and the cross (sans cristus= empty.) The “empty” cross is not a symbol of the resurrected Christ. The empty tomb is. Most Lutheran Churches in the world use the cross with the crucified Christ on it. Poor, rural churches in the upper American midwest usually used a simpe cross for reasons of ease and cost. It had nothing to do with what is more “Lutheran.” Poor Catholic parishes also used a couple of crossed planks of wood.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by Norskyone http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39752 Norskyone Wed, 10 Mar 2010 22:19:24 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39752 Faint? Then they are too into what they want and out of touch with the heritage of the Lutheran Church. "Let my prayer rise before you as incense; the raising up of my hands as the evening sacrafice." -the Bible and Lutheran vespers. The "preachers" (pastors/priests) still ceremoniously raise their hands. (watch) Why do they not also use incense? BTW the incense is frankinsence and myrrh. How biblical, huh? Faint? Then they are too into what they want and out of touch with the heritage of the Lutheran Church. “Let my prayer rise before you as incense; the raising up of my hands as the evening sacrafice.” -the Bible and Lutheran vespers. The “preachers” (pastors/priests) still ceremoniously raise their hands. (watch) Why do they not also use incense? BTW the incense is frankinsence and myrrh. How biblical, huh?

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by karpov89 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39751 karpov89 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:32:57 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39751 Well but as far as I know in America there are no ordanied bishops like the Anglicans have and as the Scandinavian Lutherans. Although liturgy may be high church, there pastors are only a part of priesthood of all believers. Well but as far as I know in America there are no ordanied bishops like the Anglicans have and as the Scandinavian Lutherans. Although liturgy may be high church, there pastors are only a part of priesthood of all believers.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by Adeelfos http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39750 Adeelfos Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:17:38 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39750 Yes and no. Lutheran (Evangelic Catholic) ministry is in a way based on priesthood of all believers, BUT not all believers are called for ministry. Difference between Romans and Lutherans is that Romans believe that ministry is in hands of Pope - Lutheran believe that ministry is in the Word of God. Yes and no. Lutheran (Evangelic Catholic) ministry is in a way based on priesthood of all believers, BUT not all believers are called for ministry. Difference between Romans and Lutherans is that Romans believe that ministry is in hands of Pope – Lutheran believe that ministry is in the Word of God.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by karpov89 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39749 karpov89 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:47:24 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39749 Ministry in the hands of the Pope? I do not really think so, where have you read that?! But you must be in communion with him, if that is what you mean. Anyway; according the High church lutherans, Holy Orders is a sacrament (which you can find support for in the Apology of the CA), to be a priest you have to be ordained by a bishop in Apostolic succession with S:t Peter and the first apostles, in the same way as the Anglican priests Ministry in the hands of the Pope? I do not really think so, where have you read that?! But you must be in communion with him, if that is what you mean.

Anyway; according the High church lutherans, Holy Orders is a sacrament (which you can find support for in the Apology of the CA), to be a priest you have to be ordained by a bishop in Apostolic succession with S:t Peter and the first apostles, in the same way as the Anglican priests

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by Adeelfos http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39748 Adeelfos Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:57:56 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39748 Yes you are correct. By using words "hands of the Pope" I meant Apostolic continuance delivered by physical act by Roman catholic bishop (if you know what I mean?). All lutherans consider Holy Order as a sacrament. But lutheran understanding of Apostolic succession is that congregation is free to call it's own pastors, if ordaning is made impossible by ruling church authorities against the Word of God (Luther: 'On the Councils and the Church'). Yes you are correct.
By using words “hands of the Pope” I meant Apostolic continuance delivered by physical act by Roman catholic bishop (if you know what I mean?).

All lutherans consider Holy Order as a sacrament. But lutheran understanding of Apostolic succession is that congregation is free to call it’s own pastors, if ordaning is made impossible by ruling church authorities against the Word of God (Luther: ‘On the Councils and the Church’).

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by karpov89 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39747 karpov89 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:57:37 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39747 Jag ser att du är från Finland...and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland has it Apostolic Succession from the Church of Sweden, which has it from a Roman Catholic bishop. Well the Lutherans of America do certainly not consider the Holy Order a sacrament, they do have no priests and no real bishops. I think for a Lutheran church, the continuity with the prerefomation Catholic Church is essential. But, yes that is succession according to the Catholic Church. Jag ser att du är från Finland…and the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland has it Apostolic Succession from the Church of Sweden, which has it from a Roman Catholic bishop. Well the Lutherans of America do certainly not consider the Holy Order a sacrament, they do have no priests and no real bishops. I think for a Lutheran church, the continuity with the prerefomation Catholic Church is essential. But, yes that is succession according to the Catholic Church.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by Adeelfos http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39746 Adeelfos Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:29:24 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39746 I appreciate that you consider Swedish as a language of Finland too - correct! I don't think that Roman Church finds ELCs of Sweden and Finland as a part of Apostolic succession. This is because of the lack of communion. Your view seems to be more familiar with Anglican ideology. Either way, the ELC of Finland has been abandoning it's apostolic tradition and doctrine. This means the end of pure Apostolic succession also in my opinion. I appreciate that you consider Swedish as a language of Finland too – correct!
I don’t think that Roman Church finds ELCs of Sweden and Finland as a part of Apostolic succession. This is because of the lack of communion. Your view seems to be more familiar with Anglican ideology.
Either way, the ELC of Finland has been abandoning it’s apostolic tradition and doctrine. This means the end of pure Apostolic succession also in my opinion.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by karpov89 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39745 karpov89 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:19:26 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39745 Yes, though I think I write in English here so the others understand (otherwise I think Swedish is better as it is a language in common). I know the Catholic church does not recognise our Succession; as the ordination was not confirmed by the Vatican and the deviation from Catholic faith. Well as long as there are some properly ordinated clergy which holds on to the faith they are true priests. Besides I am glad that Finland may have a quite conservative Archbishop (the professor). Yes, though I think I write in English here so the others understand (otherwise I think Swedish is better as it is a language in common). I know the Catholic church does not recognise our Succession; as the ordination was not confirmed by the Vatican and the deviation from Catholic faith.

Well as long as there are some properly ordinated clergy which holds on to the faith they are true priests. Besides I am glad that Finland may have a quite conservative Archbishop (the professor).

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by Adeelfos http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39744 Adeelfos Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:01:02 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39744 "The professor" would truely be less the unfortunate choice, though I personally wait March 20th when Missionsprovinsen will ordinate bishop for us here in Finland. Many lutheran congregations (and their pastors) here will be rejoicing that day. “The professor” would truely be less the unfortunate choice, though I personally wait March 20th when Missionsprovinsen will ordinate bishop for us here in Finland. Many lutheran congregations (and their pastors) here will be rejoicing that day.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by robblehood http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39743 robblehood Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:11:22 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39743 Ugh. "Stable Family in an Unstable World." Sounds like the illusion of infallibility is not an exclusively Roman Catholic trait. When will churches stop pretending like they're less broken, less contradictory, less sinful than the rest of the world? When will Christians be honest to themselves an to Jesus and fess up to their fragility and imperfection? Ugh. “Stable Family in an Unstable World.” Sounds like the illusion of infallibility is not an exclusively Roman Catholic trait. When will churches stop pretending like they’re less broken, less contradictory, less sinful than the rest of the world? When will Christians be honest to themselves an to Jesus and fess up to their fragility and imperfection?

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by karpov89 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39742 karpov89 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:51:35 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39742 Well but against same sex unions and blessings, what do you want more?! About woman ordination, as long as there are no woman bishops it is ok. Missionsprovinsen is not for me as it is mostly Old church Lutheran, not so interested in the visible unity of the Church. Well but against same sex unions and blessings, what do you want more?! About woman ordination, as long as there are no woman bishops it is ok.

Missionsprovinsen is not for me as it is mostly Old church Lutheran, not so interested in the visible unity of the Church.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by karpov89 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39741 karpov89 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 17:33:47 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39741 It is the Church which is infallible, but only when it comes to faith, not other matters like science, politics etc. And no guarantee for stability in every family. It is the Church which is infallible, but only when it comes to faith, not other matters like science, politics etc. And no guarantee for stability in every family.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by Adeelfos http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39740 Adeelfos Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:38:45 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39740 It is not what I want, but what Church believes and confesses. Woman ordination is against apostolic teaching and condemned by the Word so it is not "ok". Heresy is heresy although times change. Missionsprovinsen confesses apostolic order, so interest or not, it is visible unity. It is not what I want, but what Church believes and confesses. Woman ordination is against apostolic teaching and condemned by the Word so it is not “ok”. Heresy is heresy although times change.

Missionsprovinsen confesses apostolic order, so interest or not, it is visible unity.

]]> Comment on What the Buddha Taught: Revised and Expanded Edition with Texts from Suttas and Dhammapada by Clovis Sangrail http://religion-n-spirituality.com/buddhism/what-the-buddha-taught-revised-and-expanded-edition-with-texts-from-suttas-and-dhammapada-6453/comment-page-1#comment-39731 Clovis Sangrail Wed, 10 Mar 2010 16:22:16 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/buddhism/what-the-buddha-taught-revised-and-expanded-edition-with-texts-from-suttas-and-dhammapada-6453#comment-39731 This book was a truly frustrating introduction to Buddhism. Most of the chapters read like religious partisan rants. Rahula spent the majority of the book addressing what he felt were misconceptions about Buddhism without really explaining what Buddhism is. I agree with the reviewer who said that the second chapter was pretty much a nitpicking semantic jeremiad on the word 'dukkha.' <br /> <br />That said, the book contains one of the greatest lines of all time: "So Pukkusati went out in search of an alms-bowl and robes, but was unfortunately savaged by a cow and died." This book was a truly frustrating introduction to Buddhism. Most of the chapters read like religious partisan rants. Rahula spent the majority of the book addressing what he felt were misconceptions about Buddhism without really explaining what Buddhism is. I agree with the reviewer who said that the second chapter was pretty much a nitpicking semantic jeremiad on the word ‘dukkha.’

That said, the book contains one of the greatest lines of all time: “So Pukkusati went out in search of an alms-bowl and robes, but was unfortunately savaged by a cow and died.”

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by karpov89 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39739 karpov89 Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:41:08 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39739 Actually it is not true that the Word condemns Woman ordination - and it is indeed correct with women ordinated deacons. But I agree as twelve apostles were only men then there should not be woman priests and bishops. But now there is no reason to have illegal ordinations just because of women priests as a priest do not ordain other priest. What I meant was that Missionsprovinsen seem to be negative to the Catholic church and to find ways to find each other and the visible unity. Actually it is not true that the Word condemns Woman ordination – and it is indeed correct with women ordinated deacons. But I agree as twelve apostles were only men then there should not be woman priests and bishops. But now there is no reason to have illegal ordinations just because of women priests as a priest do not ordain other priest.

What I meant was that Missionsprovinsen seem to be negative to the Catholic church and to find ways to find each other and the visible unity.

]]> Comment on What the Buddha Taught: Revised and Expanded Edition with Texts from Suttas and Dhammapada by Denise Anderson http://religion-n-spirituality.com/buddhism/what-the-buddha-taught-revised-and-expanded-edition-with-texts-from-suttas-and-dhammapada-6453/comment-page-1#comment-39730 Denise Anderson Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:14:55 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/buddhism/what-the-buddha-taught-revised-and-expanded-edition-with-texts-from-suttas-and-dhammapada-6453#comment-39730 This book is full of three things namely: 1 The views/beliefs/conjectures of Rahula. 2. The doctrine of Theravada (Natthika), based in Abhidhamma, not Sutta. 3. Aphilosophical conclusions not bassed in the Suttana of Buddhism (Nikayas).<br>Walpola Rahula, contrary to Buddhist Sutta makes 2 rather large (3 actually) claims as per Buddhasasana (Buddhism) in this book. <br>#1. One must be a monk/bhikkhu to attain the status of Arahantship; and that #2. There is no Absolute/Soul (attan/Atman) in Buddhist Doctrine. This is all well and fine except that Walpola Rahulas claims are his own and 180 degrees to the Suttas (definative texts/scriptures); i.e. the Nikayas.<p>Walpola Rahula's claim #1 is refuted in Sutta at:<br>[SN 5.410] I proclaim there is absolutely no difference between a layperson with a mind (citta) which is liberated, and that mind of a bhikkhu which has been liberated for a century. <br>[AN 3.451] Monks, having followed six things, the layperson Tapussa, because of hearing the Tathagata, has come to utmost supreme transcendence, has seen utmost immortal and has his being in the realization of the immortal itself. Other refutations to Rahula as per Bhikkhu/Arahantship are at: [AN 3.451] and [Theragatha #144]<p>Walpola Rahula's claim #2 as per the Soul/Spirit/Atman being "denied" in Buddhism is refuted in Sutta at:<br>The Soul is Charioteer"[Jataka-2-1341]<br>"The Tathagata is without the mark of all things, he dwells upwards within the signless inflexured mind (citta). There within, Ananda, dwell with the Soul as your Light, with the Soul as your refuge, with none other as refuge." <br>[SN 5.154, DN 2.100, SN 3.42, DN 3.58, SN 5.163] <br> "The Soul is ones True-Nature (Svabhava)" [Mahavagga-Att. 3.270] <br>" the light (joti) within one's mind (citta) is the very Soul (attano)" [DN2-Att. 2.479] <br> "The Soul is the dearest beloved" [AN 4.97] <br> "The Soul is the refuge that I have gone unto" [KN Jatakapali 1441] <br> "To be fixed in the Soul is to be flood crossed" [Mahavagga-Att. 2.692] <br> "The Soul is Svabhava(Self-Nature)." [Maha'vagga-Att. 3.270] <br> "The Soul is the refuge to be sought" [Suttanipata-Att. 1.129] <br>"Having become the very Soul, this is deemed non-emptiness (asuñña)" [Uparipanna'sa-Att. 4.151] <br> "Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means steadfast in ones True-nature (thitasabha'vo)" [Tikanipa'ta-Att. 3.4] <br> <p>I'm rather afraid that the claims (of which there are many) that Mr. Rahula makes in this book are just that, claims only. Opinion/conjecture/belief/speculation , as a claim must be not only be substantiated in the texts/scriptures of said religion, but also must be philosophically coherent. Mr. Rahula's book, to those in the know, is not only a summation of Buddhism as it exists in doctrine, but is a collection of Abhidhammic (Theravada/Natthika/Atomism) beliefs contrary to the oldest texts of scriptural Buddhism, that being the Pali Nikayas.<p>Pali Scholar and translator -Admnts. This book is full of three things namely: 1 The views/beliefs/conjectures of Rahula. 2. The doctrine of Theravada (Natthika), based in Abhidhamma, not Sutta. 3. Aphilosophical conclusions not bassed in the Suttana of Buddhism (Nikayas).
Walpola Rahula, contrary to Buddhist Sutta makes 2 rather large (3 actually) claims as per Buddhasasana (Buddhism) in this book.
#1. One must be a monk/bhikkhu to attain the status of Arahantship; and that #2. There is no Absolute/Soul (attan/Atman) in Buddhist Doctrine. This is all well and fine except that Walpola Rahulas claims are his own and 180 degrees to the Suttas (definative texts/scriptures); i.e. the Nikayas.

Walpola Rahula’s claim #1 is refuted in Sutta at:
[SN 5.410] I proclaim there is absolutely no difference between a layperson with a mind (citta) which is liberated, and that mind of a bhikkhu which has been liberated for a century.
[AN 3.451] Monks, having followed six things, the layperson Tapussa, because of hearing the Tathagata, has come to utmost supreme transcendence, has seen utmost immortal and has his being in the realization of the immortal itself. Other refutations to Rahula as per Bhikkhu/Arahantship are at: [AN 3.451] and [Theragatha #144]

Walpola Rahula’s claim #2 as per the Soul/Spirit/Atman being “denied” in Buddhism is refuted in Sutta at:
The Soul is Charioteer”[Jataka-2-1341]
“The Tathagata is without the mark of all things, he dwells upwards within the signless inflexured mind (citta). There within, Ananda, dwell with the Soul as your Light, with the Soul as your refuge, with none other as refuge.”
[SN 5.154, DN 2.100, SN 3.42, DN 3.58, SN 5.163]
“The Soul is ones True-Nature (Svabhava)” [Mahavagga-Att. 3.270]
” the light (joti) within one’s mind (citta) is the very Soul (attano)” [DN2-Att. 2.479]
“The Soul is the dearest beloved” [AN 4.97]
“The Soul is the refuge that I have gone unto” [KN Jatakapali 1441]
“To be fixed in the Soul is to be flood crossed” [Mahavagga-Att. 2.692]
“The Soul is Svabhava(Self-Nature).” [Maha'vagga-Att. 3.270]
“The Soul is the refuge to be sought” [Suttanipata-Att. 1.129]
“Having become the very Soul, this is deemed non-emptiness (asuñña)” [Uparipanna'sa-Att. 4.151]
“Steadfast-in-the-Soul (thitattoti) means steadfast in ones True-nature (thitasabha’vo)” [Tikanipa'ta-Att. 3.4]

I’m rather afraid that the claims (of which there are many) that Mr. Rahula makes in this book are just that, claims only. Opinion/conjecture/belief/speculation , as a claim must be not only be substantiated in the texts/scriptures of said religion, but also must be philosophically coherent. Mr. Rahula’s book, to those in the know, is not only a summation of Buddhism as it exists in doctrine, but is a collection of Abhidhammic (Theravada/Natthika/Atomism) beliefs contrary to the oldest texts of scriptural Buddhism, that being the Pali Nikayas.

Pali Scholar and translator -Admnts.

]]> Comment on Grace Lutheran Church – Stability in an Unstable World by Adeelfos http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455/comment-page-1#comment-39738 Adeelfos Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:59:02 +0000 http://religion-n-spirituality.com/christianity/lutheranism/grace-lutheran-church-stability-in-an-unstable-world-6455#comment-39738 1. Cor 14 teaches about order in the gatherings of the church (en tais ekklesiais) and includes denial of woman preaching (gynaiki lalein). Paul clearly says: "things that I write to you are the commandments of the Lord" and here's the condemnation: "If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized." Illegal ordinations? According to which law? 1. Cor 14 teaches about order in the gatherings of the church (en tais ekklesiais) and includes denial of woman preaching (gynaiki lalein). Paul clearly says: “things that I write to you are the commandments of the Lord” and here’s the condemnation: “If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized.”

Illegal ordinations? According to which law?

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